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Standing on 16
Posted: 16 November 2009 08:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
apope
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my problem with standing on 16 is that when i read this black jack chart and it says stand and i dont do it BAM… i loose else im good, so my question is from where does the blackjack charts come from and if im not having good results with them if theres any way to repair them or check them for inconsistensies.

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Posted: 14 December 2012 03:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
mrsmooth
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Jacob - 07 January 2009 10:30 PM

If you are following Basic Strategy and playing with 16 you want to stay if the dealer has a 2,3,4,5 or 6.

Couple exceptions:
If you have 8/8 you want to split most of the time
If you have A/5 you want to hit or DD depending on their upcard

Jacob,

Good call on pointing out the subtle differences and exceptions to multiple combinations totaling 16.  I took special note to your comment about 8/8/ splitting ‘most of the time’ vs all the time.  Care to elaborate on why most vs all?  And what is your personal BS on DD on A/5?  dealer 4,5,6,?  anything else?

I look forward to your comments as I have an opinion, too.  MrSmooth

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Posted: 14 December 2012 03:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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bodog - 08 January 2009 01:10 AM

Pretty good reply Jacob. Well I would suggest the same but when I actually play at casinos, I forget about techniques and strategy and just follow what my intuition says!

Hey bodog,
no disrespect but do you ever win?  or win more than you lose?  I have never met a winner who uses intuition—-ever!  I have met several winners who do vary from BS because of the inherent flaws of using BS.  But when they vary strategy it is done on objective information and NEVER intuition.  Information such as counting a’s, 8’s, & 5’s…or subtracting # of hands and adding small cards 2-6 as a counting system (VERY NICE), understanding dealer streaks, etc. But NEVER intuition EVER.  Your comments, sir?  MrSmooth

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Posted: 14 December 2012 03:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
mrsmooth
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pokerking - 12 January 2009 02:00 AM

I think you’ve read right. If dealer has 10 or more and you are on 16. You should probably stand. Luck is on your side.

Leave it to a poker player to make such comment about blackjack. Blackjack is a game of skill pokerking dude.  Holding on 16 because you feel you have ‘luck on your side’ is reckeless unless you have objective information to do so.  Several betting strategies insist the player hits on 16 in order to set up the dealer or players next hand to better win progressions or parleys.  Shuffle tracking and shuffle cutting along with using second or tierchary hands as sacarafice to ‘walk the plank’ for primary hands (larger bets) is also key in decisionmaking. 
The effect of cards played is what determines your chances of winning in blackjack and a skillful player has knowledge of said history duriing play.  MrSmooth

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Posted: 14 December 2012 04:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
mrsmooth
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victor - 26 February 2009 09:29 AM

Same here. If I am on 16, I would stand if the dealer has 10 or higher as then either its clear win or loose situation depending on his cards.

Victor & forum members,

Let me give you some stats to help you understand WHY you hit on 16 v dealer 10 (unless you have objective information not to do so)

1.  the average dealer hand is 18.84
2.  when dealer shows 10, dealer busts 23.04%
3.  dealer fills pat hand 17-20 with 2 cards 1 in 3 times, 3 cards 1 in 2.4 times, and 4 cards 1 in 6.1 times
4.  when looking at composition dependant strategies, with 16 v d 10, you have an expected return of -.541055 when you stand and an expected return of -.533630 % when you hit if your 16 is a 10+6 (rules DHS17, 6 deck shoe)

In another words, HIT or if your allowed surrender and lose half your bet.  NEVER stand unless you have information (card counting, 10 rich deck, counting A’s, 8’s 5’s, shuffle tracking etc)

Hope these stats help the forum.  MrSmooth

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Posted: 15 December 2012 01:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
maker21
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why is the rule on splitting always split “8"s?

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Posted: 08 July 2013 01:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
crapsdealer
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I might’ve missed the joke….this thread is a joke, right? Look, this is how it is..if you have a 16 against a dealer up card of 2,3,4,5,6, you stay…if you have a 16 (first two cards), against a dealer up card of 7,8,9, 10, or face you hit.  If you draw to a 16 against an up card of 7,8,9, or 10(or face) , you stay. Math proves it, so I’ll say it every day.  And I’m gonna give everyone (90% at least)  a hint. If a guy playing at the blackjack table says “The book says”, or “well, by the book you should…”, chances are that guyhas never read “beat the dealer”, he’s never heard of Thorpe, he’s just heard rumors and heresay about how to beat the game.  I see it (almost ) every day.  I burn a card from a 6 deck shoe “can we see that card?” ...of course you can!  The casino lets me show that card, because (hopefully) it will influence the way you bet next hand. Seeing the next card, or letting you cut the deck before I put it into the shoe is just like voting!  If it really mattered, they wouldn’t let you do it.

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Posted: 08 July 2013 01:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
crapsdealer
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sorry, I didn’t include splitting 8’s…yes, always split 8s, except against a dealer up card of 9 or better, then treat it like a 16.

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Posted: 08 July 2013 01:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
crapsdealer
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maker21 - 15 December 2012 01:24 PM

why is the rule on splitting always split “8"s?

“always split 8’s and Aces”  you know every gift shop in every casino sells those strategy cards, right? You really think a casino will sell you a strategy card designed to beat them in their own gift shop?

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Posted: 08 July 2013 01:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
crapsdealer
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maker21 - 15 December 2012 01:24 PM

why is the rule on splitting always split “8"s?

sorry I didn’t exactly answer your question in my first response. The reason is your giving up 1 16, to get 2 8’s, hoping to draw to 2 18s. It’s a great move, most of the time. But , sometimes I do laugh (quietly of course) when people say “always think the dealer has a 10 underneath” (very true)  but then I have a 9 up, they seem to disregard their thinking, and put up more money so they can make 2 18’s, all the while thinking “the dealer has a 10 under his 9”

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Posted: 11 December 2013 01:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
Dunbar
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I think splitting 8s is always the right strategy. Common sense would seem to support crapsdealer’s point of view: Why go for two 18s when it just means losing twice as much to the dealer’s (probable) 19? But sometimes what seems to be “common sense” turns out to be wrong mathematically. I read this in an article about the legendary Four Horsemen of the Aberdeen Proving Grounds (these were the true founders of blackjack strategy, in the 1950s, several years before Prof. Thorp): “Their newly devised strategy was virtually perfect. It looked nothing like any of the incorrect strategies floating around at the time, and contained ‘shocking’ maneuvers such as splitting 8s against 9 or 10.” I am not a mathematician and I cannot prove that they were correct, but I am a fan of gambling history and I do put my trust in the mathematicians even if I cannot understand their reasoning.

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Posted: 12 December 2013 09:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
$nakeEye$
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crapsdealer -

I do NOT believe that a casino gift shop would sell ’ anything ’ that would be an advantage to the average idiot playing ANY casino game -

However, the strategy is and ALWAYS will be - ’ Split A’s and 8’s vs Everything ’ -

A former DGGC graduate /  past,  present and future DGGC player !

$...eE..$

crapsdealer - 08 July 2013 01:45 AM
maker21 - 15 December 2012 01:24 PM

why is the rule on splitting always split “8"s?

“always split 8’s and Aces”  you know every gift shop in every casino sells those strategy cards, right? You really think a casino will sell you a strategy card designed to beat them in their own gift shop?

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“Dictionary is the only place that success comes before work.  Hard work is the price we must pay for success.
  I think you can accomplish anything if you’re willing to pay the price.”    Vince Lombardi
           

    $nakeEye$

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Posted: 18 December 2013 01:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
Dunbar
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$nakeEye$ - 12 December 2013 09:44 PM


A former DGGC graduate /  past,  present and future DGGC player !

What is DGGC?

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Posted: 21 December 2013 03:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
$nakeEye$
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Dunbar -

” DGGC ” stands for the Doug Grant Gaming College -

Doug ran a number of in-house training seminars / sessions / schools in the NJ / PA area back in the mid to late 80’s -

Trained people to play his method of playing BJ -

Then formed teams which played AC, Las Vegas and Reno -

He has since moved on to other things - sports betting -

And the school is no longer in business !

He also did business as ” Sigma Research ” which was affiliated with DGGC !

$...eE..$

Dunbar - 18 December 2013 01:58 PM
$nakeEye$ - 12 December 2013 09:44 PM


A former DGGC graduate /  past,  present and future DGGC player !

What is DGGC?

 Signature 

“Dictionary is the only place that success comes before work.  Hard work is the price we must pay for success.
  I think you can accomplish anything if you’re willing to pay the price.”    Vince Lombardi
           

    $nakeEye$

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Posted: 26 December 2013 01:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
Dunbar
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$nake Eye$:
Thank you for the information. When I Googled DGGC, I got a restaurant promoting its Damn Good Grilled Cheese Sandwich. I figured that you were probably not a Damn Good Grilled Cheese graduate, so I tried acronymfinder[dot]com which gave me Dentate Gyrus Granule Cells, Deposit Guaranty Golf Classic, and Disc Golfers of Greenbrier County. None of those sounded right either.

Anyway, again, thank you for the info on Doug Grant Gaming College. From your description, it sounds like a really great institution for serious gamblers, but of course I am about 25 years too late to make any practical use of it. Seems to be the story of my life.

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